Listening to this entire series I've felt... ugh! This already beyond-grown-up man has absolutely no clue what consent is. He has no skill in reading the women he interacts with. He mainly picks young women (in their early 20s) or despondent women who either aren't yet empowered to be on par with him and speak up when interactions derail or who aren't in a position to negotiate. How the heck is that in any way sexually rewarding to a grown-up man with such a career and intellectual prowess? And, in the end, the phone call with the 20-year-old woman he had abused and how he sought justification for his actions (a 60-year-old!)... I simply lost any form of respect for this... person. How could Amanda Palmer not read this person? It doesn't seem like this individual is any good at disguising his lack of sexual knowledge. We should consider sexually educating adults, especially those in any positions of influence and/or obvious decisional power. We need to educate ourselves and our young ones to read the signs of ignorant and manipulative sexual abusers.
I used to work in a University in the UK and Gaiman's behaviour very much reminds me of the predatory behaviour of certain academics with young female students. It's like these men have a radar for vulnerable women with low self-esteem and prey on it. I was involved as a witness in a grievance case supporting a student. The institution whitewashed over it though. He had a circle of friends/colleagues who wore me down afterwards for speaking up until I left. I feel hopeful about how things are changing though, listening to the journalists in this podcast with their level of understanding of what coercive behaviour is and how the law has changed in it's understanding. The power dynamic between Gaiman and his accusers is so off. I have a 19yo daughter myself now and she's so together in some ways, but so very young in others. It breaks my heart to think what these young women have been through. I'm heartened though by the response of a lot of Gaiman's fans to these allegations and their condemnation of his behaviour. Young folk really are quite wonderful IMO.
@@passing4human598 I have no sense of hope at all tbh. with increasing poverty power differences increase and this stuff will increase hugely. I think we've failed to secure a decent future . Sorry to sound glum but my experiences in academia and corporations tell me this is endemic and getting worse .
@@passing4human598 "It's like these men have a radar for vulnerable women with low self-esteem and prey on it." There's a name for them too: They're called NARCISSISTS. You should check out the (serious, i.e., non-Meghan Markle-related) RUclips videos--and website/blog and books--of HG Tudor, a diagnosed "narcissistic psychopath" (as he likes to introduce himself, I would image because it's easier to say & sounds more shocking than that it means he's been diagnosed with both Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Anti-Social Personality Disorder). He uses a pseudonym & doesn't appear on camera, but for the purposes of his facade of intellectualism & palatability & his stated goal of wanting to "cheat death" (as an atheist) by leaving a legacy when he dies, which won't be any time soon, he gives rare insight into exactly how narcissists--and the different categories of them, which are original to him and are a lot easier to understand than the "official" APA categorizations of "grandiose" (which is pretty much a _requirement_ for a diagnosis of NPD!), "vulnerable," "shy," "covert," "malignant," etc. narcissists), and his explanations are much more concise & clear than the other well-known professional narcissist here on RUclips who claims to have invented all the confusing APA terms that didn't exist when _he_ was diagnosed with NPD in like 1995 or so. Gaiman has tried to excuse his behavior by saying he was diagnosed two years ago as autistic. In fact, autism and narcissism are often confused, although if you want to hear a really good interview, along with a follow-up, check out the interview HG did with "Naughty Autie" Harry Thompson, which should be easily findable via a RUclips or Google search. Here's a link to earlier one of two hour-and-a-half conversations that really flew by for me on Harry Thompson's channel: ruclips.net/video/aKPjU-WyhfY/видео.html The copies on HG's channel if you find them in a search were posted almost a month after they initially aired, and the _first_ one, if you're interested in knowing the difference between autism and narcissism, is really where you should start because HG does most of the talking at the beginning and clearly explains his "framework" for how he categorizes both narcissists at one end of a horizontal spectrum (NOT the same as the autism "spectrum," which is more like a color wheel) and "empaths" at the opposite end, who are the primary targets for narcissists & their needs for control, attention, and the other "prime aims" HG identifies. If you see both interviews come up on HG's channel ("Knowing the Narcissist - The Ultra"), the one with the _green_ theme card is the earlier one; also, Harry has much longer hair in the second one, but both interviews are very good & intriguing. (Note: "PDA" stands for "Pathological Demand Avoidance," a common condition in autistic people that you can find explained in various videos by other "actually autistic" adults; I highly recommend Orion Kelly's copious, well-researched, and well-prepared RUclips videos on a multitude of topics related to autism, as well as his podcast channel; he has PDA & a video about it here: ruclips.net/video/lInOsxe2Lo4/видео.html. In fact, he also has a video in which _he_ refutes someone, or multiple people, mistakenly calling him a narcissist! The big difference being, in my experience, that a _narcissist_ can never admit to having been wrong or hurting someone & actually _changing_ or making a _sincere_ apology. I don't have PDA, but, as I--admittedly barely--understand it, PDA is the inability to do something you would ordinarily be willing to do _if_ someone _else_ tells you to do it. Another RUclipsr who is also a mental-health-care professional, Dan Jones, at the channel "The Aspie World," has PDA--as well as ADHD like me, or "AuDHD" for short since ADHD & autism so commonly co-occur, so he speaks a mile a minute--and has a few videos explaining it as well. Another actually autistic & "AuDHD" RUclipsr with a psychology degree whose channel I highly recommend is Samantha Stein at "Yo Samdy Sam.") HG & at least one other expert on narcissism say that it is _possible_ to be _both_ autistic _and_ a narcissist, but it would be _extremely_ rare. As an autistic empath raised by a narcissist and who's been a frequent victim of narcissistic abuse myself until I discovered HG's work & how different narcissists are to the rest of us who are capable of true/"emotional" empathy & how pathetic they view us if we stay with them because we feel sorry for them & think we can somehow "fix" them if we just love them enough when they don't _want_ to be fixed or believe there's anything _wrong_ with them just the way they are, and their empathy _cannot_ be restored after the age of 9, I find it _highly insulting_ that the disgustingly overrated, even idolized, subject of this podcast series whose work even makes me feel ill🤢 (especially since HBO made a series out of his "American Gods" book that revealed his sexual deviancy to the point where I turned it off halfway through the second episode & couldn't go back or erase it from my memory) would try to excuse his behavior by claiming to lack the social skills--after the _many_ unwanted sexual acts he's inflicted on _multiple_ vulnerable women and his pre-existing understanding of NDA's and payoffs, in addition to his dishonesty about actually making the promised donation to a rape-crisis center in return for a woman's silence, at _his_ age and level of intelligence--is due to his "autism" ... if the diagnosis is even correct! (Narcissists are notoriously good at manipulating mental-health professionals, most of whom unfortunately lack a thorough understanding of narcissism and, ironically, are very often narcissists themselves! This is not only based on my own experience & an article I read in a reputable online psychology magazine, but has recently been confirmed, along with the reasons why, by HG Tudor: ruclips.net/video/ao1-JCawWJU/видео.html) The big difference is that, while we may lack an understanding of neurotypical social skills, even if we have difficulty showing it in a socially expected way, we generally _do_ have a considerable amount of empathy & actually feel _terrible_ about & _learn_ from it after we're made aware that we've hurt someone ... and try _not_ to _repeat_ the behavior! I'd actually love for this podcast to interview HG Tudor about his thoughts on what category ("school," "subschool," and "cadre") Gaiman belongs to, but I'm betting it's the "victim" cadre, which most likely makes him a Middle Mid-Range (unaware) narcissist--exactly the same school and subschool as Meghan Markle, although I'm sure he's got _other_ psychological issues at play--potentially psychopathy given his obvious need to dominate and inflict pain, i.e., sexual sadism. HG's contact info is readily available on his website & RUclips channel.
Only just vaguely heard of this guy - not into comic books. This popped up on my Spotify. Fascinating. I tend to believe the women. I believe his ex wife may have been an enabler/victim/procuress (you can play more than one role in someone’s life). In every utterance recorded he seems totally self centred (narcissist only ever talking about how something affects HIM). He even seems to revel in the apologies and self flagellation - it’s all a fun play for him). And autism? How dare he! My son is autistic and he has more moral fibre than anyone I know.
I am not surprised at all- I have never been a fan of him or his work myself. Always had an off feeling. Very sad . Thank you for your work on this. I have a feeling his ego will prevent real change....
Group email? At 18 minutes in, N.G. sends a long email to a new target claiming he has "never done this before" (love at first sight/propositioning a young woman not his wife). He was in his fifties and she was 22 and reported that she was astonished that he could generate the email so quickly.
Do we need to raise the age of consent, specifically for women? At what point can someone finally be held responsible for the choices they make? I’m not saying Mr. Gaiman’s behavior isn’t awful. Like most men in the entertainment industry, he can’t seem to keep it in his pants, which is especially pathetic at 60 years old. But was he supposed to read minds and question consent despite endless suggestive texts, several repeated encounters and in one case, actual weekends away with the woman? If texting “It was fully consensual” isn’t consent, then what is? People question the NDA’s, but considering what happens to men if even a whisper of sexual misconduct is suggested, I don’t blame him.
This is what people actually want to do I think. Soooo much of this, is dancing around that problem. I think we should just say it, the age of consent for women is twenty five, and for men it's sixteen. Would solve a lot of these controversies.
@@tamarabedic9601 But that's the same issue. Are we acting like they can't *want* that? At some point it becomes paternalistic to make the older man responsible for that, and the NG case certainly comes up on that line at the very least. I mean, at some point you either believe "everything between consenting adults" or you don't. I think the person above is getting an important point. A lot of the discomfort here, is because a lot of people want the age of consent for men to be 16, and the age of consent for women to be a more complicated formula that ranges from 16-28 or so depending on circumstances, but we're tying ourselves in knots to just never say that out loud. This podcast is really structured around taking advantage of that discomfort, and direct it all at calling NG a predator, even though it conflicts with a lot of people's beliefs.
But women are a lot more mature than men in their late teens early twenties which is often why women go out with older men. I myself had a relationship with a 28 year old when I was 19.@10base-teaparty97
So Claire calls him up after 10 years giggles on the phone calls and basically says she needs money. Im not saying hes innocent by any means he obviously has a some sick thing going on but this phone call is just so awkward....
Claire is clearly still that 11 year-old fan girl she was talking about. She's almost right when she refers to her 22 year old self as "almost an adult" before checking herself and saying "well, actually an adult". She knows in herself she wasn't old enough or mature enough to manage her own sexuality. And many of those arguing this case are literally arguing that - that Gaiman groomed her and that he was an older more powerful man taking advantage of a younger more vulnerable woman. It all suggests Claire was too much a child to manage her own sexuality and that the adult male had a responsibility to protect her. I don't myself see why Gaiman should be crucified for this, but maybe we do need better social protocols for protecting those women who lack the emotional substance to negotiate a world of free sexualities. I propose a kind of exam that women should have to pass in order to enter public life without a chaperone. Like I'm all for women being free - many women are perfectly capable of managing liberated sexualities. The more we hear from the diverse voices of women on the internet though, the more obvious it becomes that some just aren't.
Shit, this is sad. I hoped for things not to be this bad. Seems like the world got a little dimmer. And the idols are falling and shattering the heavens we hoped were within reach
Toys should know that a permanent trauma may make u unemployable. Divorce attorneys sb advising women that the min u need 2 avoid homelessness is 50k per year for 50 yrs. Most ppl die in their 70s and 80s if they suffered a heartbreak whilst others tend to die of old age in their 90s. It is very difficult to heal and a bandage on a bullet would by way of an ineffective too low payment doesn't heal. None of these women have enuf life xp and will also never b told by other attys the minimum they will practically not greedily need.
They're referring to what's called the "annual exclusion." It's a pretty normal way to refer to it. The top level, is in fact however much money you have, you'd just pay taxes on it, but there is no limit.
I am deeply, deeply fucking disappointed in Neil Gaiman.
For having allegations thrown at him? This is so silly.
@snicker576 Believe the victims.
@@Alexander.Lockwood Why should I?
Listening to this entire series I've felt... ugh!
This already beyond-grown-up man has absolutely no clue what consent is. He has no skill in reading the women he interacts with. He mainly picks young women (in their early 20s) or despondent women who either aren't yet empowered to be on par with him and speak up when interactions derail or who aren't in a position to negotiate. How the heck is that in any way sexually rewarding to a grown-up man with such a career and intellectual prowess? And, in the end, the phone call with the 20-year-old woman he had abused and how he sought justification for his actions (a 60-year-old!)... I simply lost any form of respect for this... person.
How could Amanda Palmer not read this person? It doesn't seem like this individual is any good at disguising his lack of sexual knowledge. We should consider sexually educating adults, especially those in any positions of influence and/or obvious decisional power. We need to educate ourselves and our young ones to read the signs of ignorant and manipulative sexual abusers.
I think she reads him just fine
I used to work in a University in the UK and Gaiman's behaviour very much reminds me of the predatory behaviour of certain academics with young female students. It's like these men have a radar for vulnerable women with low self-esteem and prey on it. I was involved as a witness in a grievance case supporting a student. The institution whitewashed over it though. He had a circle of friends/colleagues who wore me down afterwards for speaking up until I left. I feel hopeful about how things are changing though, listening to the journalists in this podcast with their level of understanding of what coercive behaviour is and how the law has changed in it's understanding. The power dynamic between Gaiman and his accusers is so off. I have a 19yo daughter myself now and she's so together in some ways, but so very young in others. It breaks my heart to think what these young women have been through. I'm heartened though by the response of a lot of Gaiman's fans to these allegations and their condemnation of his behaviour. Young folk really are quite wonderful IMO.
@@passing4human598 I have no sense of hope at all tbh. with increasing poverty power differences increase and this stuff will increase hugely. I think we've failed to secure a decent future . Sorry to sound glum but my experiences in academia and corporations tell me this is endemic and getting worse .
@@passing4human598 "It's like these men have a radar for vulnerable women with low self-esteem and prey on it." There's a name for them too: They're called NARCISSISTS. You should check out the (serious, i.e., non-Meghan Markle-related) RUclips videos--and website/blog and books--of HG Tudor, a diagnosed "narcissistic psychopath" (as he likes to introduce himself, I would image because it's easier to say & sounds more shocking than that it means he's been diagnosed with both Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Anti-Social Personality Disorder). He uses a pseudonym & doesn't appear on camera, but for the purposes of his facade of intellectualism & palatability & his stated goal of wanting to "cheat death" (as an atheist) by leaving a legacy when he dies, which won't be any time soon, he gives rare insight into exactly how narcissists--and the different categories of them, which are original to him and are a lot easier to understand than the "official" APA categorizations of "grandiose" (which is pretty much a _requirement_ for a diagnosis of NPD!), "vulnerable," "shy," "covert," "malignant," etc. narcissists), and his explanations are much more concise & clear than the other well-known professional narcissist here on RUclips who claims to have invented all the confusing APA terms that didn't exist when _he_ was diagnosed with NPD in like 1995 or so.
Gaiman has tried to excuse his behavior by saying he was diagnosed two years ago as autistic. In fact, autism and narcissism are often confused, although if you want to hear a really good interview, along with a follow-up, check out the interview HG did with "Naughty Autie" Harry Thompson, which should be easily findable via a RUclips or Google search. Here's a link to earlier one of two hour-and-a-half conversations that really flew by for me on Harry Thompson's channel: ruclips.net/video/aKPjU-WyhfY/видео.html The copies on HG's channel if you find them in a search were posted almost a month after they initially aired, and the _first_ one, if you're interested in knowing the difference between autism and narcissism, is really where you should start because HG does most of the talking at the beginning and clearly explains his "framework" for how he categorizes both narcissists at one end of a horizontal spectrum (NOT the same as the autism "spectrum," which is more like a color wheel) and "empaths" at the opposite end, who are the primary targets for narcissists & their needs for control, attention, and the other "prime aims" HG identifies. If you see both interviews come up on HG's channel ("Knowing the Narcissist - The Ultra"), the one with the _green_ theme card is the earlier one; also, Harry has much longer hair in the second one, but both interviews are very good & intriguing.
(Note: "PDA" stands for "Pathological Demand Avoidance," a common condition in autistic people that you can find explained in various videos by other "actually autistic" adults; I highly recommend Orion Kelly's copious, well-researched, and well-prepared RUclips videos on a multitude of topics related to autism, as well as his podcast channel; he has PDA & a video about it here: ruclips.net/video/lInOsxe2Lo4/видео.html. In fact, he also has a video in which _he_ refutes someone, or multiple people, mistakenly calling him a narcissist! The big difference being, in my experience, that a _narcissist_ can never admit to having been wrong or hurting someone & actually _changing_ or making a _sincere_ apology. I don't have PDA, but, as I--admittedly barely--understand it, PDA is the inability to do something you would ordinarily be willing to do _if_ someone _else_ tells you to do it. Another RUclipsr who is also a mental-health-care professional, Dan Jones, at the channel "The Aspie World," has PDA--as well as ADHD like me, or "AuDHD" for short since ADHD & autism so commonly co-occur, so he speaks a mile a minute--and has a few videos explaining it as well. Another actually autistic & "AuDHD" RUclipsr with a psychology degree whose channel I highly recommend is Samantha Stein at "Yo Samdy Sam.")
HG & at least one other expert on narcissism say that it is _possible_ to be _both_ autistic _and_ a narcissist, but it would be _extremely_ rare. As an autistic empath raised by a narcissist and who's been a frequent victim of narcissistic abuse myself until I discovered HG's work & how different narcissists are to the rest of us who are capable of true/"emotional" empathy & how pathetic they view us if we stay with them because we feel sorry for them & think we can somehow "fix" them if we just love them enough when they don't _want_ to be fixed or believe there's anything _wrong_ with them just the way they are, and their empathy _cannot_ be restored after the age of 9, I find it _highly insulting_ that the disgustingly overrated, even idolized, subject of this podcast series whose work even makes me feel ill🤢 (especially since HBO made a series out of his "American Gods" book that revealed his sexual deviancy to the point where I turned it off halfway through the second episode & couldn't go back or erase it from my memory) would try to excuse his behavior by claiming to lack the social skills--after the _many_ unwanted sexual acts he's inflicted on _multiple_ vulnerable women and his pre-existing understanding of NDA's and payoffs, in addition to his dishonesty about actually making the promised donation to a rape-crisis center in return for a woman's silence, at _his_ age and level of intelligence--is due to his "autism" ... if the diagnosis is even correct! (Narcissists are notoriously good at manipulating mental-health professionals, most of whom unfortunately lack a thorough understanding of narcissism and, ironically, are very often narcissists themselves! This is not only based on my own experience & an article I read in a reputable online psychology magazine, but has recently been confirmed, along with the reasons why, by HG Tudor: ruclips.net/video/ao1-JCawWJU/видео.html) The big difference is that, while we may lack an understanding of neurotypical social skills, even if we have difficulty showing it in a socially expected way, we generally _do_ have a considerable amount of empathy & actually feel _terrible_ about & _learn_ from it after we're made aware that we've hurt someone ... and try _not_ to _repeat_ the behavior!
I'd actually love for this podcast to interview HG Tudor about his thoughts on what category ("school," "subschool," and "cadre") Gaiman belongs to, but I'm betting it's the "victim" cadre, which most likely makes him a Middle Mid-Range (unaware) narcissist--exactly the same school and subschool as Meghan Markle, although I'm sure he's got _other_ psychological issues at play--potentially psychopathy given his obvious need to dominate and inflict pain, i.e., sexual sadism. HG's contact info is readily available on his website & RUclips channel.
Amanda Palmer is just as bad tbh. I say that as someone who used to be a huge fan of them both growing up.
Only just vaguely heard of this guy - not into comic books. This popped up on my Spotify. Fascinating. I tend to believe the women. I believe his ex wife may have been an enabler/victim/procuress (you can play more than one role in someone’s life).
In every utterance recorded he seems totally self centred (narcissist only ever talking about how something affects HIM). He even seems to revel in the apologies and self flagellation - it’s all a fun play for him).
And autism? How dare he! My son is autistic and he has more moral fibre than anyone I know.
I am not surprised at all- I have never been a fan of him or his work myself. Always had an off feeling. Very sad . Thank you for your work on this. I have a feeling his ego will prevent real change....
Group email? At 18 minutes in, N.G. sends a long email to a new target claiming he has "never done this before" (love at first sight/propositioning a young woman not his wife). He was in his fifties and she was 22 and reported that she was astonished that he could generate the email so quickly.
I haven't felt this betrayed by a celebrity since Rolf Harris
Do we need to raise the age of consent, specifically for women? At what point can someone finally be held responsible for the choices they make? I’m not saying Mr. Gaiman’s behavior isn’t awful. Like most men in the entertainment industry, he can’t seem to keep it in his pants, which is especially pathetic at 60 years old. But was he supposed to read minds and question consent despite endless suggestive texts, several repeated encounters and in one case, actual weekends away with the woman? If texting “It was fully consensual” isn’t consent, then what is?
People question the NDA’s, but considering what happens to men if even a whisper of sexual misconduct is suggested, I don’t blame him.
This is what people actually want to do I think. Soooo much of this, is dancing around that problem. I think we should just say it, the age of consent for women is twenty five, and for men it's sixteen. Would solve a lot of these controversies.
Dude he groped and kissed and even fucked women when they didn't want it
Maturity is certainly part of it. But I think the lynchpin here is power; power, plus a desire to share the limelight of a famous, beloved person.
@@tamarabedic9601 But that's the same issue. Are we acting like they can't *want* that? At some point it becomes paternalistic to make the older man responsible for that, and the NG case certainly comes up on that line at the very least. I mean, at some point you either believe "everything between consenting adults" or you don't.
I think the person above is getting an important point. A lot of the discomfort here, is because a lot of people want the age of consent for men to be 16, and the age of consent for women to be a more complicated formula that ranges from 16-28 or so depending on circumstances, but we're tying ourselves in knots to just never say that out loud. This podcast is really structured around taking advantage of that discomfort, and direct it all at calling NG a predator, even though it conflicts with a lot of people's beliefs.
But women are a lot more mature than men in their late teens early twenties which is often why women go out with older men. I myself had a relationship with a 28 year old when I was 19.@10base-teaparty97
So Claire calls him up after 10 years giggles on the phone calls and basically says she needs money. Im not saying hes innocent by any means he obviously has a some sick thing going on but this phone call is just so awkward....
Why is this playlist in reverse order? It's confusing and annoying. Please fix it.
Claire is clearly still that 11 year-old fan girl she was talking about. She's almost right when she refers to her 22 year old self as "almost an adult" before checking herself and saying "well, actually an adult". She knows in herself she wasn't old enough or mature enough to manage her own sexuality. And many of those arguing this case are literally arguing that - that Gaiman groomed her and that he was an older more powerful man taking advantage of a younger more vulnerable woman. It all suggests Claire was too much a child to manage her own sexuality and that the adult male had a responsibility to protect her.
I don't myself see why Gaiman should be crucified for this, but maybe we do need better social protocols for protecting those women who lack the emotional substance to negotiate a world of free sexualities. I propose a kind of exam that women should have to pass in order to enter public life without a chaperone. Like I'm all for women being free - many women are perfectly capable of managing liberated sexualities. The more we hear from the diverse voices of women on the internet though, the more obvious it becomes that some just aren't.
Okay weirdo
Is that a Welsh accent?
Shit, this is sad. I hoped for things not to be this bad. Seems like the world got a little dimmer. And the idols are falling and shattering the heavens we hoped were within reach
MAN WTF....
gross
Meal ticket.
It's paying quail farmers quail prices from There Will Be Blood.
Toys should know that a permanent trauma may make u unemployable. Divorce attorneys sb advising women that the min u need 2 avoid homelessness is 50k per year for 50 yrs. Most ppl die in their 70s and 80s if they suffered a heartbreak whilst others tend to die of old age in their 90s. It is very difficult to heal and a bandage on a bullet would by way of an ineffective too low payment doesn't heal. None of these women have enuf life xp and will also never b told by other attys the minimum they will practically not greedily need.
BTW top level gift is $11.7m
They're referring to what's called the "annual exclusion." It's a pretty normal way to refer to it.
The top level, is in fact however much money you have, you'd just pay taxes on it, but there is no limit.
what is this "Neil Gaiman's account"???? as "journalists" you need to do better. As "presenting all sides fairly and accurately" ... no you are not!
Is this a 'flex' ? : ruclips.net/user/shortspzBZvU8g7H4
Oh, Claire... Weren't you more than just a lillte bit irresponsible? Come on...
Spoken like a true white bloke of your generation.. come on...